Home Forum Racing, Training & Coaching Track & Field YDL 2017 and beyond

This topic contains 197 replies, has 2 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Mark E Mark E 9 months, 2 weeks ago.

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  • #153160 Reply


    I think these are sensible, but we should not exclude athletes that are genuinely interested in the event, but just not very good (yet). If an athlete wants to compete they should be encouraged to do so and results published on power of 10. It should only be the match points that are not awarded, and thus making aimless gap filling a thing of the past.

    #153161 Reply


    Hi Mark, I’m not sure what you were implying with your London comment. My suspicion is that participation rates are not great and that the London clubs benefit from athletes moving to the city.

    The biggest YDLL problem is in the Midlands where the athletes are voting with their feet. Look at http://www.thepowerof10.info/results/results.aspx?meetingid=132511. Fewer than half the places are filled in the events at this match. This pattern is repeated across all the lower divisions in the Midlands and was the same even in YAL days. Surely this can’t be the right competition format for these athletes – though I suspect you’d be better off asking them rather than me.

    On that point I see the YDL Working Party only has representatives from the big clubs. Why is that?

    #153162 Reply
    Profile photo of piriepirie

    The YDL is to provide good competition not found in normal league meetings but as long as points are involved you will get dilution of competition.

    I get asked to provide anyone from my group who to compete in a YDL competition if they can get a point, and people wonder why YDL is in trouble.

    Hank–Athlete’s who are “genuinely interested ” is not an option when the idea is to provide good competition.

    #153163 Reply
    Profile photo of Mark E
    Mark E

    Why? It is interesting that you use the example of a lower division in the Midlands. Looking at those results Halesowen are getting stronger but not sure about the rest. If you look at the division we are in – Premier N/E, we have very full events with only PV being potentially a bit light on competitors. The teams in our division last season were MMKAC, Birchfield, Charnwood, Stoke and Wolverhampton. Personally I support different timetables and structure below Premier Division, but this divides opinion.

    I have no answer to the reason why most of the working party is made up of reps from bigger clubs although I am not sure this is entirely accurate, it depends on your definition of big clubs!

    #153164 Reply


    Gateshead Premier East/ Premier 1
    Team Edinburgh Premier East/ Division 1 (highest Scottish division)
    Rugby & Northampton Premier NE/ Premier NE
    Blackheath & Bromley Premier 1/ Premier 1
    Team Norfolk Premier 2 – the only the second tier in the South!

    Why is there no one from the bottom two thirds of the clubs?

    #153169 Reply
    Profile photo of Mark E
    Mark E

    Because they didn’t put themselves forward.

    #153170 Reply
    Profile photo of southlondonllad

    I would go further and remove the 1500m steeplechase from UKYDL until both numbers and standards increase. Where is the benefit to the sport by watching a couple youngsters , who have probably already done the 800, 1500 and or 3000m jog between the barriers, while their mates get a few fun ‘selfies’ at the water jump ?

    #153171 Reply
    Profile photo of MickBrom


    That’s an odd comment. You surely drive up standards by giving more opportunities, not fewer. In the SAL we have included two scoring female steeplechasers in each match. There are 165 women who have achieved the 9 minute standard for the event on the PoT rankings, and 101 on the SAL rankings at


    #153172 Reply
    Profile photo of southlondonllad

    Mick , I am looking at the wider picture. The main problem for me with the YDL is the length of the day. Its just far too long. secondly most clubs in England just cannot provide enough u20yrs to fill a team so managers scrap around to get anyone to do anything. And as an official I often see such poor attendance and lack of real race intention with the steeplechases….particularly the men u20 and u17yr….plus the time and effort getting the water jump ready, setting up and removing the barriers (often in poor condition) hence my suggestion. Your example LINK does support my other Topic post that girls are outperforming the boys.
    So take a look at yr Pof10 year 2015 and 2010. region EAST MIDLANDS for u20 and u17 men……do you see what I see ? If it wasn’t for a few Rugby AC athletes there hardly much steeplechase racing going on ?

    #153310 Reply
    Profile photo of southlondonllad

    MarkE…have you read the UKA’s Competition Strategy paper (Jan 16) http://www.englandathletics.org/library-media/documents/Competition%20Strategy%20Review%20-%20presentation%20to%20EA%20Board%2011-11-15.pdf and the National Councils somewhat critical reply (Feb’16) by Tony Shirit. I personally thought the review paper made some very sound suggestions re the YDL……but not totally liked by the National Council….eg extracts “Generally it was felt that the CSG proposals were anti-club and did not address the central issue for domestic competition regarding priorities determined by the permitting system run by UKA.”….and …”The proposals for non-Senior athletes seemed to be at a very initial stage and need considerably more thought and work. This is clearly a very important development area and there are well-known defects in provision through the main competition provider, the Youth Development League (YDL).


    #153311 Reply
    Profile photo of Mark E
    Mark E

    Yes, there is a lot of generalised stuff out there in the public domain.

    We need to come up with something workable that also covers the aspirations of the majority. The challenge is that often people want change but without actually changing anything.

    #153312 Reply


    When is this review due to be published?

    #153313 Reply
    Profile photo of Mark E
    Mark E

    Not sure yet but we have a meeting to review the feedback this weekend.

    #153314 Reply


    Thanks Mark

    #153315 Reply
    Profile photo of southlondonllad

    Good Luck and hope you reduce the long day as a priority. Speaking to my 23yr daughter who was until recently was a very active T&F athletes since the age of 10.

    She said “ Do you know what dad, the main problem with T&F for youths is it lack of fun events”
    So I asked what she would do to encourage both more fun.
    “Well Dad, my suggestions will never happen as they are not in the UKA rules handbook . First I would introduce events that many u15yr Boys would like to do for a laugh.”
    “Such As ?” I asked.
    “The longest throw-on with a football. The longest kick of a Rugby ball. The highest number of ‘Keepie-uppies’ with a football….……..and to finish off, a 7 aside ‘Tug-of-War’

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