Home Forum Racing, Training & Coaching Track & Field YDL 2017 and beyond

This topic contains 197 replies, has 2 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Mark E Mark E 9 months, 2 weeks ago.

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  • #158450 Reply
    Profile photo of fangio

    As far as I can see from P10, using the ranking performances from 2006, and looking at how many U13s met the levels in 2006 and 2016 it doesn’t look like decline.
    100m (13.5) 160. 209 +49
    200m (28.0) 156. 189 +27
    800m (2:28) 140. 248 +108
    1500m (5:05) 145. 280 +135
    75mh (14.6) 121. 232 +111
    Hj (1.40) 96. 144 +48
    Pv (2.00) 5. 15 +10
    Lj (4.40) 158 218 +60
    Sp (8.50) 80. 77 -3
    Dt (21.00) 51. 76 +25
    Jt (30.00) 36. 66 +30
    Pent (1600) 9. 13 +4

    100 (14.0) 177. 221 +44
    200 (29.5) 189. 314 +125
    800 (2:40) 252. 425 +173
    1500 (5:30) 105 257 +152
    70h (13.0) 199. 285 +86
    Hj (1.33) 134. 199 +65
    Pv (2.00) 2. 13 +11
    Lj (4.15) 191. 293 +102
    Sp (7.50) 104. 174 +70
    Dt (20.00) 39 75 +36
    Jt (20.00) 58. 163 +105
    Pent (1600) 57. 102 +45

    Now that looks like increases, and some fairly substantial ones, in all but the boys shot in the youngest age group. So I guess you are right we should hold the ngb to account for such a performance.

    John, the specialist here is you. An increase in school places, predominantly primary at the moment, does not mean the competitive age population of th nationals has increased. If you wish to show that to be the case kindly find some actual relevant stats, the demographics from the census certainly do not back that view, and only an idiot would pretend that the stat from the NAO proves it.

    #158457 Reply

    John Bicourt

    Very amusing that the prime Woodward brother “fangio”…(what a disgraceful use of a great driver’s name) is such a mouthy hypocrite and bigot when it comes insults and his own cherry picking fatuous comments. …….Face the facts, Woodward. We have a growing population and hence a growing competitive age for athletics…….but the problem for the sport is that so few are interested to take up athletics or remain beyond 16 because our useless NGB have no idea and no desire to do anything to properly promote the sport (beyond their own costly elite meetings) and support the clubs as they are funded to do.

    Do something useful as you are so ignorantly adamant that the decline in the sport is nothing to do with the ¬£millions wasted on UKA/EA, and provide us with a list of all employee positions, their job title, job specification and how they fill their 8 hours a day, throughout the year, “Driving and Developing British athletics”?

    #158458 Reply

    John Bicourt

    …..Oh, tell us something we don’t know…….It’s bloody obvious that the U13’s are thriving and always have, year on year….But what you choose to ignore in your odious dissembling, is that these kids disappear at a steady rate through to 16 and then alarmingly from 16 onwards. At 21, over 90% have vanished……maybe they all emigrated!

    • This reply was modified 11 months, 3 weeks ago by  John Bicourt.
    • This reply was modified 11 months, 3 weeks ago by  John Bicourt.
    #158463 Reply

    John Bicourt

    ….By the way, Woodward-Fangio. Why don’t you look at appropriate figures and not “cherry pick” as you hypocritically accuse others?
    Tim Grose’s stats in 2006 were not official figures and so how accurate were they, given that many results were never collected. Perhaps you’d care to give us the comparison between 2013 and 2016 for the U13’s, which inconveniently for you, show a decline.

    #158464 Reply



    The stat from SLL was that live births increased between 2001 and 2011. Given that the increase given was only 6 years ago how does this have any bearing on a dicussion about the YDL? An increased number of 6 year olds doesn’t impact the league.

    It certainly has not reached our senior competitive age group yet.

    It also alledged that performance was decreasing, which Fangio has demonstrated is less than accurate.

    So why are you attacking him? That’s right,because you a pathetic bully who doesn’t like people giving facts that disagree with your opinions.

    You once wrote an article giving the 95-97 medals and top 8 placings as 17 and 47 respectively. You complained of a lack of progress. The figures for 2015-2017 stand at 17 and 44 already. You wanted an improvement, well there you are from two championships we have almost achieved what we achieved in three prior to funding. Against the socio economic and sporting background of the last 20 years that is an incredible achievement.

    #158465 Reply
    Profile photo of Mark E
    Mark E

    John, whether you admit it or not, external factors have been the main contributor to drop out rates.

    If we can find a way of competing in athletics using social media and hosted in a Coffee Shop we would retain more athletes.

    Where we could do more is to educate Parents that spending 100% of waking hours revising is not conducive to success in exams because that is another reason why we lose so many 16 and 18 year old’s.

    My only comment on the NGB is that a positive improvement would be to make Athletics more prevalent in Schools. This would maintain involvement and the same could be said of Higher Education. A lot of County Schools Associations are struggling because PE Teachers are disinterested in Athletics and increasingly unwilling to do extra-curricular clubs etc. It is far easier to organise lessons for other sports.

    #158469 Reply


    The complexity of putting on an effective athletics meeting is immense. The competitive experience needs to improve from its traditional form due to the higher expectations that young athletes and their parents now have. Our indoor system is more effective than our outdoor system (but far from perfect) and these events don’t really have an inter club angle.
    I would welcome the scrapping of traditional league formats, and promote a glorified open format in it’s place. At club level we should revert to a trophy meeting system, as a competition against local rivals is far more appealing than the fixtures that league structures turn out. The leagues currently suffocate innovation…

    #158475 Reply
    Profile photo of southlondonllad

    Wise words Hank. Agree. Dedicated and enthusiastic officials are engaged all day long at Ukydl type matches. Anoraks.me included. But When I look over my shoulder across the perimeter of the track I often see disengaged young athletes hanging around for hours. It’s no wonder a high number don’t return after a season or two. Keep it local.

    #158477 Reply
    Profile photo of Mark E
    Mark E

    One of the good things about League competition is that athletes hang around with their peers, support each other in warm up etc. The U13’s return because they enjoy athletics and most want to compete. Open meetings are purely individual competitions. Athletes turn up, don’t speak to anyone, compete and leave in many cases.

    A lot has previously been said about the whole issue of Throws and jumps fests. The issue there is that they don’t promote any form
    Of development because they largely cater for the most able athletes in each age group.

    BMC and the graded opens work well for middle distance participation but are counter productive for the rest of the sport.

    #158479 Reply
    Profile photo of southlondonllad

    I remember Steve Cram saying when he was a kid he didn’t initially like training…but enjoyed the ‘youth club ‘ type environment , including a table tennis table and pool in his club house….lucky him.
    Today, most u15yrs will be sitting on the grass verge glued to their phones …………I see less and less social face-to-face interaction.
    Peers ? Do you mean the sprinters not talking to the Throwers, …The throwers not talking to the Jumpers, The Jumpers not talking to the middle distant runners ?……. The coaches hiding from the Team Managers…….The demanding parents shouting out original encouragement other than…”dig in!”

    #158482 Reply


    You are spot on with the change in social interaction SSL. This actually plays into track and fields hands. During the long periods where ‘WE’ feel the meeting is slow and boring, they are actually ‘socialising’ with people not even at the venue.
    I am sure you could fit a wiff waff and pool table in to your clubhouse SSL (you could probably get funding for that!), but I think we would more likely see you on it than your young athletes. Things are changing, and changing fast.

    #158505 Reply
    Profile photo of southlondonllad

    Hank….I hadn’t thought about that…..ie teenagers phones for hours will stop them getting bored….so not all bad.
    I asked two teenage sprinters on Sunday if they would like some ‘wiff waff’ on Tuesday night and they thought it was some under-the-counter sports enhancing drug……Then again they have never heard of Roger Bannister.

    #158507 Reply


    We are not moving with the times. Clubs with a photo finish system (like I think your club has?), need only post a photo on instagram, an image of the result. No need to relay it across with a bit of sting to the notice board. In close races, just take a snap of the actual photofinish capture. This then gets shared 100s of times within seconds…why not share it with power if 10, who can upload it to the site in a pending format before they get around to typing it up foal ly. An aside, why are there no adverts in power of 10 (bit like the bbc isn’t it)?
    It is very poor that we have not in this day and age, an electronic timing system at all of our meetings. For athletes this is a minimum requirement, and I reckon 95% of meetings don’t use it. The fact that the systems are overly complicated does not help. For most meetings there is no need to be accurate to 1000th of a second.
    The ydl has not fulfilled its mission statement. This is the biggest ngb led development initiative in recent years, and it has failed, and they have now turned their back on it. But who gives a shit?

    #158508 Reply


    All athletics leagues which seek to emulate football leagues are doomed to fail.

    #158514 Reply
    Profile photo of Mark E
    Mark E

    2 Points from me:

    1. It would be interesting to ‘mystery shop’ this proposal amongst various clubs and assess the percentage who actually fully understand it.

    2. Any proposal for clubs to be joined together part way through a season is fanciful at best. The complexity and political issues are a massive challenge.

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