Home Forum Racing, Training & Coaching Track & Field YDL 2017 and beyond

This topic contains 197 replies, has 2 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Mark E Mark E 6 months, 2 weeks ago.

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  • #158119 Reply
    Profile photo of southlondonllad

    Lets face it, the bigger clubs will always gain more points than a medium and smaller sized clubs . This is simply because they can enter more ‘B athletes on the track. Below the Premier divisions there continues be large gaps in the ‘B’ races. This means that even by match 2 the league leaders will invariably become the league winners. Its like a tug of war with the bigger clubs having a few extra tuggers on their end of the rope.
    I propose the UKYDL should look at, and consider, if there is merit changing the ‘warded points’ so that the value of the A athletes is far greater than the B athletes. ??
    Eg. 6 Team match :
    Current points : A – 9,7,6,5,4,3. B 7,5,4,3,2,1
    I propose : A – 15,13,12,11,10,9 and B 6, 5,4, 3,2,1

    #158120 Reply
    Profile photo of Mark E
    Mark E

    SLL….I agree totally.

    In fact I would go further and award the following for 6 team matches.

    A – 9/7/5/4/3/2/1
    B – 5/3/1

    This would remove the incentive to put a B athlete in to score a point.

    It is the thin end of the wedge.

    Interestingly the Midland YDLU structure below Premier level is getting mixed reviews. One of the Divisions, they are split geographically, has 1 very strong team in it and they are totally dominant, although in fairness the others are far closer.

    #158400 Reply

    john bicourt

    This has appeared on the PO10 website, hosted by Athletics Weekly, and paid for by lottery money to the tune of c£250,000
    This means PO10 require the volunteers, who run the YDL, must now provide the results in an XL spreadsheet format so that AW can just press a button and upload without doing any work themselves (which is what they and UKA are receiving lottery money to do….in “Driving British athletics”!) ………..But the unfunded topsinathletics.com provides full YDL results by doing the work themselves to format the normally sent PDF’s from the YDL Volunteers.

    And a response from Debbie Gunning: “Before that a copy of results is sent to Team Managers who have 24 hours to check all the results, then amend them if need be, then produce the spreadsheet, all this after a full day in the case of lower age group dealing with young athletes and their parents.” !

    #158409 Reply


    c£250,000 is what topsinathletics used to charge when they had the contract – and that’s why they lost it. And no they don’t provide anything like full results, they never did even when UKA were paying them.

    #158412 Reply
    Profile photo of BillLaws

    Confused? is an apposite name for you. ABAC took quite an interest when Dave Moorcroft promoted the setting up of P10. It was pointed out that a detailed results service could be a two edged sword. It has recorded decline rather than rise. But then, at least we know where we are.
    The initial set up costs were high at about £120,000 pa for 3 years. But the maintenance costs to run P10 now should be considerably lower.

    #158420 Reply
    Profile photo of fangio

    Really Bill, looks like improvement at the elite end to me, and at top 10 level too. Oh, and of course the BS retention figures you came up with previously, if you run them again on the same basis come out as improving. I know you like to say things are getting worse, but it is not true as a blanket statement. Yes the deeper depths have struggled, and there are individual events with declines, but with a declining GB & NI national population at competitive age what do you really expect?

    #158421 Reply
    Profile photo of southlondonllad

    Quote from The National Audit Office made in 2013: –Between 2001 and 2011, the number of live births rose by more than a fifth.. Furthermore , 240,000 more school places would be needed within just 12 months to cope with the surge . The hike is being fuelled by the increasing birth rate across England combined with an influx of migrants in some areas. Also, just over 7m children (2013) were in state schools and this will grow to 8,021,000 in next few years. .
    Now here we are in 2017, and the number of students attending Secondary schools is at an all time historical high……….and certainly not in decline for these pool of potential athletes…..

    It will interesting to see if Pof10 Rankings will witness a significant increase in the number of (say) U15 and u17’s doing competitive T&F this year compared to the numbers participating/competing in 2011 ?

    #158422 Reply
    Profile photo of fangio

    Yes increase in live births, but we are more multi cultural, does it give the chosen nationalities of those births, or whether they stayed?

    #158423 Reply
    Profile photo of southlondonllad

    yes they stayed….and attending secondary schools…..increased population ,and numbers in education in the under 20yrs u17yr and under 15yr have increased significantly ..not decline as you appear to say to Bill…….Agree ?

    #158433 Reply
    Profile photo of Mark E
    Mark E

    SLL – there are a massive number of distractions for 15-18 year olds and generally lifestyle is not conducive to this age group doing sport.

    Every sport sees a massive drop out at GCSE and A Level age.

    #158434 Reply
    Profile photo of Mark E
    Mark E

    SLL – unlike 1975 there are many more sports actively trying to attract young people. The sporting landscape has changed.

    Martial Arts collectively are bigger and traditional sports like Athletics, Swimming, Gymnastics, Football, Rugby and Cricket are having to work much harder to attract young people.

    #158435 Reply
    Profile photo of southlondonllad

    yes…I do agree MarkE……. a rethink needed……all involved needs to do all possible to make athletics an attractive sport to match the glamour of team sports….which are usually over done and dusted in 90mins ……(welcomed by both children and supporting parents)._

    #158438 Reply
    Profile photo of Mark E
    Mark E

    We have no problem attracting 8 to 14 year old’s.

    The issue is retaining them through their GCSE and A’ Level school years (10/11/12/13).

    The grass roots also has to take responsibility for this by putting in place a strategy. At club level there has to be a realisation that the typical 15 and 16 year old is not accompanied by Parents to competition. When they reach the 17 to 18 year old stage they are often working part-time and expected to fund their own sport and achieve some independence.

    For me it is all about momentum. If you can retain a core of athletes at each age then others stick around. Once you lose start to lose athletes, others follow as affiliation and social interaction are significant factors in retention. Once they leave school and move into higher education it is vital to maintain contact and make sure they are encouraged to train when they return at Christmas, Easter and Summer. No matter what the NGB does it is the Clubs who ultimately have to step up and look after their own membership levels.

    Coaching structures have to be progressive with athletes training with a peer group. One trap that clubs fall into is having too greater age spread in training squads. 17 year old’s usually want to train with 16 to 19 year old’s, not left in a group with younger children. The latter scenario just makes them feel that athletics is for kids and not their age group.

    This subject is not clear cut by any means.

    #158447 Reply

    John Bicourt

    So the National Audit Office figures proves the utter BS of fangio woodward loopy belief that our “competitive age” population is declining……. Once again the same old dribble to try and prove (ha,ha) the decline in athletics is nothing to do with the sheer incompetence and inability of our NGB’s c200 staff, to do anything about it………I guess the Woodward brothers also dismiss evolution and go for the Bible view?

    #158449 Reply
    Profile photo of fangio

    John, unfortunately SLL did not link to the article but chose to cherry pick. Now why don’t you fuck off with the personal insults. If you read around the story this is yet to filter through to secondary age groups yet, and includes significant increases for non-U.K. Born mothers a demographic that has not been that well attended by the majority white middle class sport, especially in the decades gone by. But hey just pick a single point and pretend that it shows competitive age go nationals are up and it should filter through.

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