Home Forum General Stuff The AAA’s:….. Do still have a role to play ? .

This topic contains 15 replies, has 1 voice, and was last updated by  Zac 2 weeks, 5 days ago.

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  • #160323 Reply
    Profile photo of southlondonllad
    southlondonllad

    Does the AAA’s still have a role to play ?
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    I don’t know all the ins-and-outs but with the current issues of Northern Athletics Association it got me thinking about the AAA’s . I noticed they (the AAA’s) have recently had to postpone their 138th AGM as it was ‘ inquorate’. At least they followed their rules of when a AGM should go ahead or not ……. unlike England Athletics a number of times in the last 5 years.

    Apart from putting their name to the successful Tom Pink Relays what else do the AAA currently do that is not done by others ?
    And does anyone have an update on Northern Athletics proposals

    #160326 Reply

    Zac

    Re the Northern Athletics Proposals, from memory I was told something like “Northern Athletics rolled over and accepted something like a £2 sopp per athlete”.
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    It is possible I got that all wrong, but I trust the guy I was talking with and the message I took from the conversation is that the Northern AA lacked a backbone.
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    As regards the AAAs they exist in name only. However their title carries weight, so as soon as the funding is cut from UKA and England AA, I am sure the AAAs will be reconstituted and will be the vehicle for delivering the National Championships and will become the guardians for the rules of competition, again.
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    Athletics does not need a governing body. Clubs will follow the rules of competition, and if they feel a need to be governed, they can be reminded to obey the laws of the land. I would suggest that clubs create their own in-house coaching and official qualifications, and let the Counties harvest the best officials. The regions will harvest the best officials from the counties, and the AAA’s will have the pick of the Regions.
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    I expect that England Athletics and UK Athletics last ditch attempt to loot the sport will be to let their companies go bankrupt, and then try and relaunch themselves as the AAAs. If they manage this they will be able to negotiate a small payment to the administrators to escape EA and UKA, and then cling onto the commercial wealth of the sport, being the National Championships which are worth millions in Olympic year.

    #160332 Reply
    Profile photo of southlondonllad
    southlondonllad

    Thanks Zac…..
    I actually believe that ’Athletics’ does need a NGB…but just not this current one (two) which is over staffed , too expensive, and gets side-tracked too often with ‘health initiatives’ distracting its staff and resources from presenting its grass root membership. We have senior personnel who think they know best (a bit like the inner circle of the EU) who are obsessed with their endless on-line surveys and tick box consultations ( results often ignored or data spinned ) but who in reality offer only very limited voting rights at England Athletics AGMs…….hence why so few club reps bother turning up . Least we may forget, England Athletes staff wage bill for 2016 was over £3.4 million and for 2017 was over £3.6 million. And the ‘new’ Chairman has been in-situ since 2016 and nobody I know could name her. I must have missed any of our Chairpersons public publicity statements to raise the profile of Athletics in England ?
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    Perhaps we need a Brexit type referendum for Athletics ? (tongue very much in cheek).
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    “Should Athletic Clubs remain a member of the current NGB or leave and revert back to an independent democratic AAA “ (I only changed a few words shown on the Brexit ballot paper)

    #160339 Reply

    Zac

    South London Lad,
    Can we unpack this need for an Athletics Governing Body business.
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    If you say what we need a governing body to do, I will argue why that particular job should not rest with a body which by definition can set laws to control the behaviour of atheltics participant.
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    Obviously rules in competition need to be specified and adhered to, but outside of competition, everyn athlete, coach and official should be free to plan their own athletics journey.
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    Lets start by getting Insurance out of the way. Any Insurance Broker can create an athletics liability policy and sell it to the clubs. Clubs would be wise to group together to keep Insurance Costs down. The People organising this do not need to govern the sport of athletics.

    #160346 Reply

    northerngravy

    northern athletics is leading the way trying to save the sport by doing something innovative to make sure they can pay for the upkeep in the long term…. and they have no backbone – lol. Midlands, Southern and AAA need to wake up before they are no longer relevant. Stop talking start doing.

    “Inaction breeds doubt and fear. Action breeds confidence and courage. If you want to conquer fear, do not sit home and think about it. Go out and get busy.” – Someone clever

    #160347 Reply
    Profile photo of southlondonllad
    southlondonllad

    but are they having to be “leading the way” due to the intransigence of the NGB ?

    Just out of interest ,how much money are they hoping to acquire as a result of the collection of this additional athlete fee ?

    #160350 Reply
    Profile photo of southlondonllad
    southlondonllad

    But ZAC ,You must surely be impressed with the long list of their NGB responsibilities when you click on England Athletics website …“WHAT WE DO” … See link : https://www.englandathletics.org/about-england-athletics/what-we-do
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    They say …”England Athletics develops grass roots athletics in England, supporting affiliated clubs to prosper, developing more and better coaches, recruiting and supporting volunteers and officials. England Athletics provides and supports competition opportunities at an international (England representative), national, area and county level.”
    I agree that they do provide some of the above, but at what cost, and they appear to be taking the unwarranted credit for much that the Clubs are doing, and have been doing successfully for 100years.
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    And on their ‘triangle’ they then try to clarify their responsibilities from that of NGB number 2, ‘UKA,’ and there is also s a bit about their other name called “British Athletics”…….its no wonder that people not close to our sport are baffled by these multi-split personality groups, and can’t fathom who really is in charge of what ? Other sports organise and promote themselves much better ,applying “KISS”…….Keep-It-Simple-Stupid………if only…..

    #160354 Reply

    Zac

    northerngravy, can you email me at admin@british-athletics.co.uk. It would be nice to share experiences and coordinate between North and South.
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    Southlondonlad, I was hoping you were going to put up a spirited defense of the need for a governing body. The deeper you go, the less need you will see. Not a single job that they do is needed.
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    Imagine a loner living in a field decided he want to represent his country at the Olympics. He trains alone, turns up at the trials, wins the race, and beats the Olympic qualifying standard. Where does a need for governance exist?
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    Organising the trials. It does not have to be an organisation with power of governance that does this. It merely needs to be recognised as the championships organiser. They set the conditions of entry, and put on the Olympic Trials.
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    International Team Selection. The championships organisers are the natural body to select the team based on the championship results. Revenue generated from the Championships can fund the team attending the Olympics. This job does not need powers to govern all the athletes who did not qualify, or attend the trials.
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    The need for governance in athletics is a myth.

    #160355 Reply
    Profile photo of southlondonllad
    southlondonllad

    Hi Zac
    I look around at many sports and whether we like it or not each has some form of NGB. Yet what is clearly apparent is the significant differences in their governance, reporting structure, democracy, leanness of essential paid staff numbers and more importantly its 100% ‘focus’ on the sport they are elected by its membership to represent.
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    In my opinion , England Athletics should just be the Clubs slick ,efficient ,lean ‘ administration ‘ team. A type of ‘Head Office’ carrying out the tasks deemed necessary and/or amendable by associate member Clubs, using democratic processes.If England Athletics where listed on (say) Trip Advisor my review would only give them 2 out 5 stars.

    #160361 Reply

    Zac

    SouthLondonLad,
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    I think a central administration office for the sport could be very helpful. As you suggest that office will be the servant of its member clubs, not the master. That is the point.
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    If you look at it from another point of view, you might see how ridiculous it is for people engaged in athletics to accept governance. Substitute Athletics for Pop Music. The Pop Concert might be the competition arena, and participation at concert might require a set of rules be adhered to. (Maximum level of sound, duration of set etc).
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    Outside of the pop concert, the idea that pop groups or musicians should be regulated by a governing body is ridiculous. In this context their is no difference between pop musicians and athletes.

    #160371 Reply
    Profile photo of southlondonllad
    southlondonllad

    ZAC,I agree with you in essence … My example would be :…. If 12yr old Peter , an active athlete, brings along his school friend Joseph , to an local level local league meeting…..then Peter can introduce Joseph to his clubs Team Manager and he can put on a club vest and have a go at 100m and the Long Jump.

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    Big Brother ,England Athletes, and its Thought Police network will not allow this and drag the Team Manager off to Room 101 .

    #160379 Reply

    Zac

    I am not sure I follow this analogy entirely.
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    There are laws which say that people working with young and vulnerable people must be subject to a CRB. That is the law of the land. If UKA and England Athletics went bust today, that legal requirement would still exist.
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    UKA use smoke and mirrors to say, if some guy is in prison for molesting children, they will have their UKA coaching license and can never coach athletics again. That is nonsense. The reason they cannot coach again is because they will have a CRB which says no future contact with children, or something like that.
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    In that scenario, UKA are a bluster machine pretending to have influence or authority, when they have none.
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    It is possible to coach athletics in the UK with just a CRB, and no formal coaching qualification.

    #160380 Reply

    Zac

    Should read:
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    they will have their UKA coaching license revoked and……..

    #160384 Reply
    Profile photo of southlondonllad
    southlondonllad

    Zac… you lost me a bit with your last post. but im a bit dense these days…and I know my spelling and grammer is CSE grade D standard so please (all readers) bear with me on this…it aint going improve.
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    With my vision of a Head Office as mostly an Administration role …I would advocate there is a need to continue a centralise admin task to oversee the most important issue of DBS checking and safeguarding.I think we are going to disagree on this one ?
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    Another side step. Does anyone know why the slim Scottish Athletics NGB are charging £170 for the 4 day UKA “Athletic Coach” course whereas the same UKA course is £270 being charged by the ‘obesed’ staff team at England Athletics HQ

    #160387 Reply

    Zac

    It might be helpful if I defined my view of governance, and how this differs from central administration.
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    Governance requires UKA and England Athletics to create laws (as in the UKA rules), and impose sanctions on those who break the rules. UKA and England Athletics have no policing powers, so cannot enforce sanctions.
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    Central administration is a cost saving and efficient method for delivering some services. The administrators are not required to create laws, or enforce them. They simply organise that which they have been instructed to do.

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