Home Forum General Stuff Non payment of England Athletics Fee

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  • #147146 Reply
    Profile photo of Jamie McHale
    MasterJ

    After watching Zac’s National XC videos I was interested to see at the start of the video, encouragement to not pay the England Athletics Registration fee. I’m intrigued to find out what people’s thoughts are on this and why you wouldn’t pay the small registration fee. I come from a swimming background with the richest amateur sports association in the country. My daughters yearly club fee was £25 which included the EA fee which I believe to be £12. I think this is very cheap and reasonable for everyone to pay, after all EA need money to run events and promote athletics. Swimming in comparison is far more expensive, club fees at my club are over £100 for the year plus £75 a month training fees. Add to that competition entry costs between £30 and £50 each gala I find athletics fairly reasonable.

    #147148 Reply

    john bicourt

    MasterJ. I don’t think it’s about the cost of the registration fee, which you rightly say is very small, but about who it’s going to (EA) and the fact they are clearly seen by most as incompetent, overstaffed and as we have witnessed from the experience of most clubs reps attending their “consultations” fraudulent in ignoring and reporting the clubs wishes, even when voted on.

    EA is merely the lackey (servile servant) of Sport England, not a proper and democratic representative and serving body for the clubs and grass roots of the sport as promised.

    And how exactly was the £20million intended and promised for the grass roots, on condition they voted in EA to replace the AAA’s,* actually spent?

    * Still a controversial decision due to the the “illegal” gathering of votes from Scotland, Wales!

    #147149 Reply
    Profile photo of Jamie McHale
    MasterJ

    Hello John and thanks for your reply. I understand the point of view you’re putting across but the reason given on the video is a tax on participation and excludes the poorer members of society from athletics. I’m not sure I agree with this point of view as I think some sort of registration is needed and I don’t think the fee is out of reach even for the poorer athlete. I’m also interested to find out the consequences of non payment? Would you still be able to enter athletics meets or cross country events?

    #147150 Reply
    Profile photo of southlondonllad
    southlondonllad

    MasterJ….I agree with John’s summary.

    My two pennies worth: There is no need for any club athlete to pay the £12 if they don’t want to. Athletes can be members and available to compete for a club in most leagues. They don’t have to become registered with EA. Most clubs rightly give their members the choice. Some clubs (wrongly in my opinion) insist their athletes pay the £12 to them , which is not always passed on to EA. This is why some feel this is a TAX.
    eg :- a youth who joins , pays club and EA fees , and then after say 6 weeks disappears. Some Clubs dubiously keeps the £12 rather than refunding the money. Worse still some clubs do still pass the money on to EA. Most leagues do not currently need or check that athletes have paid EA the £12. For example . UKYDL, the SAL, the London XC Met League. Some counties , now they have taken the very small grants from EA, have started to insist on a Reg Number. eg Essex. Whereas Middx and Herts do not currently insist on a Reg number for athletes to take part in their champs. All school age children can enter County champs without being members of a club and so have no need to also pay EA £12 on top of the entry fees. Huge numbers of club members are ‘passed their best’ (elderly) and many will not be going off to a BAL or UKWL or Area or National Champs where a Reg number is required ….and while I think about it any athlete can compete at the numerous local Open meetings without having paid the EA ‘tax’.

    Happy to be corrected if any posters feel I am not uptodate with new EA ‘rules’.

    #147151 Reply
    Profile photo of BillLaws
    billaws

    If you want a clearer picture of where we are on EA Affiliation Fees I commend ABAC’s Fact File 18.
    You will see that in 2007 EA introduced this mew concept with a £50 club fee and £3 per athlete. Prior to that clubs affiliated to the North, Midland and South Regional Associations. Each club paid then a flat fee depending on the size of its membership. In the South a club with 500+ members would pay £500 each year. i.e. £1 per member. This of course was a simple exercise requiring little monitoring. This April the fee is £100 per club and £12 per athlete.

    Until recently clubs were allowed 1 free runner per 100 members in the London Marathon. So a 500+ club had five free entries. Now clubs with 500 members but who say register 200 of them will only get two free entries. The London Marathon is now part of the Establishment in this regard.

    On a separate matter after the recent National all entrants were scrutinised post race and those who hadn’t paid were given a short period to cough up or be dqu’d.

    #147168 Reply

    Zac

    When the AAA’s were the governing body (they still are in my head), they accumulated £2 million in the bank, and struggled to find a way to spend the money. The AAA’s never collected fees directly from athletes.

    The AAA’s required that all athletes were members of an athletics club, and though that membership gave affiliation to the County and Regional Associations who clubs were required to be affiliated to.

    The wealth at the top flowed upwards from the activity at the bottom. It was also the basis by which clubs could make changes by joining together and bringing forward a motion to be adopted by the Regions and AAA’s. Unfortunately apathy allowed the democracy to be stolen by Sport England and UK Sport.

    At this years National Cross Country Championships I entered a 13 year old boy who never in one hundred years is going to pay a club subscription or an England Athletics Registration fee. I was told he would not be allowed to run the National because he was unregistered. Some smart technician must have guessed the made up number of 666 was not valid (my payment had been cashed). Believing he could not run, I did not tell him about the competition. I wish now I had simply entered the name of one of the many athletes who pay but never compete.

    Had he attended, I suspect the National might have been the event which captured his imagination and showed him what was possible if he made an effort and attended training. As it turned out, he was allocated a number and was entered in the National despite not having an EA registration number, and me being told he had been rejected. It was a ploy to try and persuade me to pay his registration fee. I will put on record here that his National XC running number was 714.

    If he starts to train regularly I will pay his club subs. However I think the window of opportunity is gone.

    Some young athletes have a positive hard working attitude, and are good for the wider training group. Such athlete’s have a currency to an athletics club which previously would have caused committee’s to turn a blind eye to the fact they never pay their subs.

    The England Athletics Registration Fee does not recognise that currency, and willfully encourages the exclusion of such people.

    #147173 Reply
    Profile photo of Jamie McHale
    MasterJ

    Thanks for the reply Zac, I’m sorry for your runner who you must see talent in. A distance runner is never going to make it though if they can’t be bothered to go to training and people who do train must expect to pay something. Too many people want something for nothing nowadays and athletics is a cheap sport compared to others.

    #147174 Reply

    Zac

    Master J.

    It is not a case of “can’t be bothered” or “will not pay”.

    Sometimes a coach has a brief window of opportunity to persuade a youngster to try out a sport. Some children can smell a “corporate club” mentality.

    If a certain kind of child is going to subject themselves to a school environment in their spare time, they want a good reason. Contrary to what Seb Coe likes to say, young children are not inspired by the “shop window” superstars. They are inspired by their own performances in competitions.

    The England Athletics Registration Fee ensures that a section of society are excluded from the very competitions that might inspire them.

    In truth I am fed up with Sport England type slogans like “Too many people want something for nothing nowadays and athletics is a cheap sport compared to others”.

    I enjoyed a lot for nothing in my childhood, and I remember many of the people who made it happen. I took them all for granted at the time. So what. Most decent athletics people are providing for nothing exactly what they received themselves in years gone by. Thats what makes the world a nice place to live.

    If people are willing to contribute without expecting thanks or anything in return who are the Quango types to interfere with it. Athletics has become swamped by such people, and frankly I would rather see the back of them.

    #147175 Reply

    KPhurdle

    Zac,
    I agree totally about non payment of fees but the National XC is perhaps not the best event to try out a youngster!

    #147187 Reply
    Profile photo of 10_
    libra

    For all championship XC and relay events this season EA have been checking on the payment status of entered runners and informing clubs beforehand.

    If you want to compete at northern or national level in xxx or road relays you have to be registered.

    #147188 Reply
    Profile photo of southlondonllad
    southlondonllad

    …….so libra, have EA employed yet another person in the ever growing and inefficient Membership Service Dept to do this detailed big brother monitoring role ? And are EA checking all Welsh ,Scots, Irish entries in the National ?

    #147189 Reply

    Zac

    The only motivation for the strong armed policing of the registration fee payments is to protect the revenue income to the business.

    England Athletics are a parasite organisation, like UK Athletics living off the back of Athletics. Nothing of value takes place today, which did not take place before the existence of England Athletics.

    I am open minded to hearing a good reason for paying the England Athletics Registration fee. The best that has been put forward so far is:

    “Too many people want something for nothing nowadays and athletics is a cheap sport compared to others”.

    Such arguments do not persuade me.

    Lets remind ourselves of the UKA CEO wages:

    2007-2008 = £128,333
    2008-2009 = £169,301
    2009-2010 = £192,281
    2010-2011 = £187,159
    2011-2012 = £182,806
    2012-2013 = £276,594

    #147190 Reply

    john bicourt

    “Lets remind ourselves of the UKA CEO wages” (Zac)

    2007-2008 = £128,333
    2008-2009 = £169,301
    2009-2010 = £192,281
    2010-2011 = £187,159
    2011-2012 = £182,806
    2012-2013 = £276,594

    Disgraceful waste of public money on a man paid to ensure all possible through his massive staff and services to enable British athletes to improve on the number of global medals won since before funding began……………………and what has he achieved? NOT ONE MEDAL MORE!

    So why is he still there? And why is he allowed to retain a staffing number of around 120 especially when he said himself on taking the job he would cut staff to around 50.

    I hear UKA they even flew their receptionist and a few other non essential staff down to the South African training camp (business class tickets of course). Perk or a convenient way to help spend more of their budget to ensure they spend what they get and keep the same cost level the next year?

    No other professional sport would allow De Vos to remain!

    #147191 Reply
    Profile photo of 10_
    libra

    @sll

    I wouldn’t have a clue. All I know is that its a pain in the arse for the team manager who has enough on his plate as it is.

    However, it wouldn’t take much wit to cross reference an entry list with the registration database and then sling out some automatic emails informing team managers where there are problems. Would take 10 or 15 minutes if you knew what you were doing.

    #147192 Reply
    Profile photo of 10_
    libra

    FWIW, I have no objection to the registration fee in principal. But I don’t like paying for something that gives me no apparent benefit. Something that EA seem to be blissfully unaware of.

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